Some use this phrase when speaking about a problem as big as life and choose to ignore it.

http://sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2008-02-19.gif

''http://www.sinfest.net/''

Everything I've learned about a wiki I have learned at this site, by YOU. Every single ReFactor, delete, or any other technical programming thing I have learned, I learned here on this site. With that said, I am making noise by creating this page but hopefully when all the noise is done I/You/We can figure out what in the world is happening here and MAYBE some things can be resolved.

I have come to learn one very small thing... the creator of this site has a very unique idea in mind for this site. Not a small box I might add... but I believe his boundaries for this place are rather open on all 4 sides.

To have order in any place there must be structure.

Here is a link to the standards Ward started: WikiWikiWeb & yet another link: WhatIsWiki. Maybe if You/I/We go back to the beginning You/I/We can figure out how to fix this mess! Peace. -- KathyBracy

''... don't let's forget the elephant in the room... an elephant called religion. - RichardDawkins''

Nah, the biggest elephant by far, is the continued conquest of the Americans Indians by NovusOrdoSeclorum.

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June 1, 2006:

Looks like we have yet another ElephantOnTheCoffeeTable... When "I" was the topic of debate and there were so many that did not see my participation on this wiki as what this wiki was intended for, I made a long post on my NamePage about leaving, as the work and effort that Ward initiated and the members of this Wiki helped to evolve it into was and still is more important than ME.

I so hope that the people who are causing trouble or the people in the future who may cause trouble, will look at this as a community of people who take an extraordinary amount of effort and time on their part to make this a wonderful site.

I hope that things will come back into balance, so that everyone can come here and receive what they are here for. Peace -- KathyBracy

I empathize with you, Kathy. I went through a learning process on C2, myself. While I respect the rights of a wiki owner to create limits and structure, I think the goals of C2 are contradicted by their limits and structure here. Any wiki that is dedicated to discussing People, Programming, and Processes does a grave injustice to its mission when it tries to limit the "People" part of the discussion. If C2 were just dedicated to Programming and Processes, they would have stronger ground to make religious discussion OffTopic (although they would even have trouble with me because ProgrammingMatters). But Ward included "People" in the mix. Mankind has worshiped from the beginning of Man. It is only because of that worship that Programming or Processes matter. When we lose sight of that, Programming becomes a hollow shell. I think the stand currently held by the C2 owners does C2 great harm, but their efforts in creating TheAdjunct is laudable and appreciated. --  BrucePennington

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Thank you, Kathy, for this. I have been thinking for several days about whether and how to comment on the situation on MessageForTheStewards and this seems to me to sum things up very well. I tried earlier with CoolingOffPeriod which did not help. Now it seems to have become a ForeverWar. The other thing which occurs to me is to ignore the conflict and to carry on with adding to the technical content as seems to me correct. I have gone on doing that, but still want to express concern at the situation and help to bring some healing. Thank you again. -- JohnFletcher

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See also DeadMooseOnTheTable.