. ''Surely that is illogical. You said that paragraphs created by others did not show the problem, but they too would be separated by
. For example, this paragraph (which ends here).'' OK, I see your point. I guess what I was indentifying was not the cause of the problem, but was the solution. What I'm saying is, if the wiki software would be changed so that it generates paragraph breaks as, I bet the problem will go away and paragraphs will display properly in ALL browsers. -- Larry The
is a zero-length paragraph, and inserting a space helps with certain browsers (some versions of Opera). I think that is a totally separate matter from the problem you encountered. Therefore, please carry out the suggestion in the next paragraph and report the result. I would do this myself, but my Mac doesn't have a modem. ''As a first attempt at a workaround for the problem, try creating a paragraph without explicitly typing the return characters. To do that, first copy and paste an existing paragraph that renders properly, and then change the text to be what you want. If that fails to render properly, I'll try to come up with another idea.'' 2004-04-17: Does wiki still exhibit this bug ? If so, please report it at WikiWikiBugs. -- DavidCary ---- ''Bear in mind that everything is an opinion, there is no higher Wiki law, just a bunch of WikiSocialNorms.'' ---- Don't forget PatternMode, one of the highest ideals of Wiki. Regarding thread mode confusion: It is sometimes useful to pretend that Wiki is some BrainInaVat which happens to have a bad case of MultiplePersonalityDisorder and is debating with itself constantly. If you look at it this way, and listen to a single anonymous VoiceOfWiki in your head, things actually start to make sense. In fact, the fewer signatures the better in this case; the fewer dates the better (unless it's really relevant, such as talking about some historical fact). Think StreamOfConsciousness. If the thread mode is '''so''' messed up, that even this doesn't help, you can refactor it, or hope someone else cares enough about the subject to refactor it. ---- I don't think I'll be around here that much to even bother. Maybe I shouldn't have bothered to post my critique here in the first place. I knew that was kind of asking for trouble, throwing myself right into the lion's den by criticizing the site used by hundreds. Anyway, I did post it, received some decent replies, and responded to it in a way that I feel quite good about. I made my point, and I still think the navigation here is terrible and very user-unfriendly. If the regulars here don't see that or don't care, well, that's their prerogative. And yes, if I set up a Wiki on a site I manage, I will definitely be finding one that I like. I've already looked into that somewhat. -- LarryIsrael ---- Hi Larry, thanks for your contributions and discussions. I just wanted to point out one last little thing that has a huge impact on Wiki. Wiki is an evolving system on its own. The set of Wiki implementations in existence is also an evolving system. What this means: The time scale of this wiki is quite long. Instead of discussions lasting a few weeks (such as on UseNet or SlashDot), they last months and years. Ideas get re-thought, re-worked, expanded, distilled, and ''mutated'' over time. Ideas trigger related ideas, and so ''replicate'' over time. You may think that it is impossible to make any progressive changes to this wiki. I'll use the example of WikiInterface. Someone wanted to make an interface for wiki. He suggested it, we asked him to justify it, he gave an example, we criticized it, he improved the example, people started to link to it. The interface now exists. ''The mere act of discussing it caused it to come into being.'' I don't know if I'm making that point clear or not. It is quite important in my view. Of course, it's not exactly like he wanted it (we don't have the icon linking directly to it yet), but that's just WabiSabi, GoodEnough, and that's WhyWikiWorks. The wiki has been changed. It will continue to change in an evolutionary way. Perhaps one day Ward will add that link to WikiInterface, and his dream will come true. If that's really what wiki wants. Only time will tell. Your suggestions are also producing the same evolutionary force. That's why I thank you for them. I know that over time, Wiki will evolve to be more user friendly. I started a page called NewUserPages just for this purpose. Someone asked AreNewUserPagesEnough? Someone tried to improve OneMinuteWiki. Robert and others suggested WikiInterface and the static menus. Before that, Wiki was even harder to grok for newcomers. Wiki has changed quite a bit over the years. And that's not even considering the mutations and replications of other wiki implementations. There's evolution there as well. I'm sure there are sites that already have a navigational menu as you suggest. For instance, WikiPedia is much easier to navigate than this wiki. ----- Recently, ie 2004-03-24, I implemented a kind of self-sitemapping wiki; please see YetAnotherWikiName. Cheers! -- DavidAumueller ''I love the concept of the editable section of the page at the bottom and I am happy you use it in your wiki. The edit box is way too wide! The edit button has to be called "Save" since you are always on the edit.'' ---- See AdviceToNewcomers ---- CategoryHomePage