There have been a number of discussions running together to form an idea of what identity is for people and for SystemsAsLivingThings: organizations. See DramaticIdentity and ConstructiveInterference. I've heard it said that there are two roles in an organization: manager and leader. They are fluid and they have little to do with title. The anecdote that I heard had a bunch of people cutting through the forest. A manager is someone who makes sure that everyone is getting fed, that there aren't many squabbles and that everyone's axe is sharp. A leader is someone who climbs to the top of a tree and yells "wrong forest!" For organizations, I would say that a manager is someone who is the custodian of OrganizationalIdentity. He/she does this to ensure the organization's survival. A leader is someone who provokes identity crises at times to ensure the organization's survival. The latter is a risky role. In ConstructiveInterference, AlistairCockburn relates an example where he shakes up the pecking order in a team to make sure that the best ideas come forth regardless of politics and loudmouthery. Could this be a form of IdentitySurgery? Regarding PeterMerel's comments in DramaticIdentity, it seems that this type of intervention which provides more freedom for the disenfranchised is part of the increasing the health of SystemsAsLivingThings (the LaoTse notion, democracy winning over totalitarianism). But my OrganizationalIdentity doesn't listen to me, or seem to care whether I exist! ''You need help -- See DrWiki''