If I only had used BigIron RDBMS instead of ExBase and other nimble table tools, I might not have been such a table fan. Also in OOP debates, often people's complaints about procedural programming come from limits of the C language instead of limits of procedural, but they associate it with procedural in general. I think one's views of paradigms/techniques are shaped by their experience with specific tools and languages rather than a wider view of what a paradigm/technique is capable of. It is not that I am complaining, but merely pointing it out. We all only live one life and thus cannot experience everything. --top