Each person experiences the world around them, a world of pleasure and pain. Therefore, each person is an end. We start out by viewing ourselves as the end and others as means. We don't view other people as our equals, but rather as objects. We become more enlightened and realize that others are equal to ourselves. We learn to compromise and consider others' points of view. However, our end is still ourselves--only we are careful not to use people as means to this end. ''This attitude reflects reality the best.'' The height of maturity, however, is when we view ourselves as a means and others as ends. We do not deny that we are an end, we just choose to work for others' ends. We must feel secure and be free from fear before we can do this. In other words, we must believe that somehow we will be viewed as an end and taken care of. ''This attitude promotes the most trust, peace, and joy in society.'' ---- You better define who or what we are serving first; otherwise the phrase is meaningless. There are lots of people who serve causes that do not promote trust, peace, or joy in society as a whole. "To Serve Man" --- Yes, unfortunately the definition of fascism is 'bundle of sticks' as in a bundle is stronger than any single piece. ''No, see BenevolentFascist.'' Which leads to a society where everyone serves the society and not their own interests. I think we exist to serve a higher good, not other people. ''Agreed, but think about this: you can't sensibly define "a higher good" without referring to people in your definition.'' ---- ''we must believe that somehow we will be viewed as an end and taken care of'' This is, I believe, the flaw in this idea (that we exist to serve others). The assumption is that if we take care of others, then others will take care of us. This leads to everyone guessing about what others want, not getting what they want themselves, and feelings of dissatisfaction and resentment. Nobody knows what I need better than I do, and I really don't know what anyone else needs. I think it is better for people to take care of the needs of themselves and their families, and just be a good neighbor to everyone else. That's what promotes trust, peace, and joy. ''(At the risk of opening a whole new can of worms, you're assuming that a God who cares about people doesn't exist.)'' ''history doesn't support you, unfortunately. Perhaps because people are largely incapable of being good neighbors (for sufficiently general definitions of neighbor).'' On the contrary, most people are very good neighbors, for the common definition of ''neighbor''. Individuals tend to live and let live. Bad things happen when people start banding together to do what is in the best interests of "the greater good". "WeExistOnlyToServe" is the attitude that causes people to join armies and to be willing to fight against enemies and to sacrifice themselves. It is what causes good people to do horrible things on the behalf of evil leaders. ''I'm obliged to disagree. Evil does not stem from wanting to cooperate with people for good causes, but from ignorance and self-centeredness.'' ''Take the Crusades as an example. It's not the cooperating together for a "good" cause that led to such evil. It's the people who were at the bottom of maturity, people who were viewing others as objects--as a means to their ends.'' What about the Children's Crusade? Untold numbers of people just picking everything up and going to fight for the Holy Land ... and starving on the way? Besides, when you separate people "cooperating" together from the goal they're actually cooperating ''for'', then you're dealing with a vacuous and abstract entity. If Cooperation in this vacuous sense is supposed to be Good (shades of Unity, another propaganda word often used in wartime) then that good is vacuous at best. And I'm more inclined to believe that such Cooperation for cooperation's sake (or Unity for its own sake) is evil since it grinds down individuals into an undifferentiated mass. As essential as cooperation is, and as much as it needs defending, making it the cornerstone of an ideology is repellent. (I have this image of someone saying "You're not being a good cooperator." ''smack'') ---- WeExistOnlyToServe only at '''the height of maturity'''. We cannot exist only to serve until this maturity has been reached, which is gained by existing only for ourselves. StephenCovey has a similar structure dependence to independence to interdependence. Moving from dependence to interdependence directly is what leads to joining armies, religious fanaticism and a clinging to a higher good. ----- "God serves man, but he is not a servant to man." -- LaVitaeBella (LifeIsBeautiful) See also, or perhaps instead: MakeLoveNotMoney.