When the ExtremeProgramming movement voted in the newsgroup news:comp.software.extreme-programming, our main concern was the list server would retreat to a high-level forum while the newsgroup attended to teaching the newbies.

Of course, USENET being the dance of elephants with diarrhea that it is, we should have forseen the newsgroup would become a magnet for winning-challenged people. Folks who have never actually tried XP now play with themselves by attempting to point out how dumb thousands of programmers must be to believe in all this hype. The White Book can answer the few valid questions they actually raise.

Case histories follow; names removed to protect the guilty.

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your example just uncovers that XP is not a reliable general
purpose software development method. it can do wonders
in niches and domains where it really fits in. i have doubts, however,
that your corner is such a domain.

XP folks just don't want to acknowledge that 100% automated tests
is not possible and passed test are not a direct measure of
system quality. at the system level you *need* a specification
to test against. "test cases as requirements" means testing against
the void.

''fallacy antidote: 100% test coverage of every line is possible, and easy, and 100% coverage of all possible branches is SomebodyElsesProblem.''

No followups are necessary to this posting; if you don't agree that is fine.
It is not necessary to convince me of that. It is clear to me that some
organizations will post follow ups to every single thread, so that their
point of view and their marketing signature line is always the "last word"
on every thread in this newsgroup.

''fallacy: Yes, XP is for sale, folks!''

I don't even believe a formal "methodology" is required for success -- but I
do believe requirements documents and a cogent design process, regardless of
type, are important, something with which I disagree strongly with XP about.

''So have you ''tried'' XP?''

60+ teams in the world. Wow. I bet you could find 600+ teams using Eiffel.
Naturally, Eiffel is going to take the world by storm?  How many software
projects are there in the world? If there are only a million, then you have
captured 0.0006% of the market! Surely we need take heed.

''If there are only 60 teams then why are there > 3,000 members of the XpMailingList?''


I may under an alias direct specific comments to
parties preceived as not using an alias or being an alias

XP as a method gives every indication of requiring
disingeneous behavior patterns. While I am not so
naieve as to believe that such patterns are avoidable
I see no reason for fostering upon my fellow man
a culture which encourages such behavior

''Translation: Having read no books about XP, I must assume the only reason everyone on this newsgroup tells me the same things is they are all the same person, posting on an alias. A typical case of projection: Paranoia abounds!''

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In summary, groups with a dense and mature crew of regulars can learn to starve out and shun out such childish petulance, but until this happens the majority of those who understand XP enough to teach about it and debate it avoid the newsgroup in disgust.